Made in January 1981; Boise, Idaho Interviewed by Mateo Osa; Excerpt of Doris Thomas’s Oral History.

This is a transcript of an excerpt of Doris Thomas’s words about discrimination against blacks in Idaho. The complete audio cassette and transcript are available at the Idaho State Historical Library.

Ms. Thomas: Her sister, she lived down here on Pioneer Street—she moved way out in the North end of town. That time they didn’t move in those sections of town.

Interviewer: I wonder why not?

Ms. Thomas: I don’t know, unless it was if they wouldn’t allow them to. See now they can’t keep them out of any part, any place.

Interviewer: Did they used to keep them out do you think?

Ms. Thomas: They used to be able to, yes. They didn’t have to rent to them or sell to them at all. They didn’t used to let in the restaurants or nothing. If they go on the street cars, they had to sit in the back of them—just like they did down South.

Interviewer:Is that right?

Ms. Thomas: Yeah, I worked in restaurants for years and we weren’t allowed to wait on them. Even during the Second World War when they brought all the colored troops in here, they wouldn’t let you wait on them.

Interviewer: Is that right?

Ms. Thomas: No, they wouldn’t allow. They could go in the shows, but if they’d come in and sit down at a show, the white people would get up. Now why I don’t know, because this was not part of the South, or Civil War or anything–there shouldn’t have been that feeling, but there seemed to be. I thought it was terrible that they wouldn’t let them in the restaurants to eat, but they wouldn’t.

Interviewer: Could you give me an example– some restaurant, maybe, you worked in?

Ms. Thomas: Well during the Second World War, I worked at the Old Casino, they called it, and then I worked at the Cabin, is where by biggest recollection of what they used to do. It was during the Second World War and they brought all these coloreds in and they had no place to put them. So they had the Boise Barracks up there where the old Soldier Home and hospital was, they called it Boise Barracks. So they housed them up there. But they didn’t provide any recreation whatsoever for them. They couldn’t go to restaurants and eat—they couldn’t go in—but they could go in and buy stuff and take it out and sit on the curb and eat it. I worked in this room, they called it, and they had friend chicken on Sunday, and they could come in and buy all they want and then take it out and sit on the curb and eat—I’d just feel sorry for those fellows. And they could buy their beer and go out and sit on the curb and drink it, but they couldn’t drink it in the place of business.

Interviewer: And that was pretty common?

Ms. Thomas: Oh yeah, that was all—there wasn’t any place that they were allowed in, not even in the old wine-o places.

Interviewer: And that was as late as World War II?

Ms. Thomas: That was during the war. I know. And then when I worked at the Grill Café for years, that was down on South 10th, and that was when the law was passed that you had to serve them because if you didn’t they could turn in a complaint and they could close your place. But no, if you served to colored people in a restaurant, they call you a “niggerlover” just like they did down South. And the white people wouldn’t come in and eat with you. Now it doesn’t seem to me like the prejudice would be that bad, but it was, ‘cause I worked through it.

Interviewer: Yeah. Was it like that—how long did you work in restaurants around here?

Ms. Thomas: Oh, thirty years.

Interviewer: And from the time you started working in restaurant was when, 1940’s or 30’s?

Ms. Thomas: No, let’s see—I went to work must have been ’36, somewhere around in there. Then I worked clear up until. . .well I was still working in the restaurants ten years ago, and my hands went bad and I had to quit.

Interviewer: You worked in a restaurant from 1936 and you can remember instances then before World War II or during World War II?

Ms. Thomas: Yeah, I worked in restaurants before World War II. We had at least two or three … I was working out at historic Gowen Field there. .. . and that was before World War II and they wouldn’t allow you to feed them then. I don’t know why. Of course, I’d been raised back East, in the middle-West, back in Indiana and Illinois and there’s lots of colored people through there. But they’re excessive—they go to school with you. They had to let them in the school, there was no distinction about the schools and the shows, they let them in theatres. But they wouldn’t let them in the restaurants.

Interviewer: How about services as far as getting served at a clothing store or a grocery store.

Ms. Thomas:No, it was just the restaurants. It was just like keeping your dog out, you know, they won’t let you take your dog in restaurants.

  • Later in Interview:

Interviewer: What about as far as, you mention blacks went to the same schools?

Ms. Thomas: Well they had Park School used to be down there on 16th and Grove and everybody from this neighborhood all went to the school down there. They kids didn’t think anything about it—they would plan with the colored kids and it didn’t bother them. It’s just the only distinction was the restaurants and they wouldn’t let them eat in the restaurants.

Interviewer: So there seem to be a pretty god relationship closer to the communities around?

Ms. Thomas: Year, oh year, there was no distinction as to whoever was colored or white. They were friendly neighbors— they were nice people and some of the best friends that I’ve ever had in my life before.

Interviewer: The kids played together.

Ms. Thomas:Oh yeah. Well you taught your children to play with them, you know you didn’t allow them to call ‘em blacks or anything, they were just the same as them. You didn’t allow none of them things—allow any distinction like that at all. And they were the same as their kids, so they always played like ordinary common kids. At one time in this neighborhood there was 42 kids on this one block.

The following are keywords and key phrases from the complete oral history of Doris Thomas (available at the Idaho State Historical Library). These are not quotes from Doris Thomas, but rather the interviewer’s summary notes of the interview.

  • Vacant lots of Lee Street, 11th to 9th Street, vacant lot, softball field, Tom Mix’s circus, Boise airport; River Side Dance Hall, roller-skating.

     

  • Outdoor toilets, River Street houses, Brown’s Market, Grand Avenue Market, Roland Crisp, Pearl Grocery, close stores handy.

     

  • Vandalism, Willa Mae Robinson, colored new to Lee Street; Ash Street – two colored families; Basques, Chinese peddlers, ice cream carts, Torrance Ice & Fuel, buying ice; Husband’s salary $3 per day; bums’ shacks on river, bag food, tar paper shacks.

     

  • People helped each other, one phone on street—William Matevie; Railroad men; depot, freight depot, Stevens, Haymancolored railroad workers; middle class neighborhood, stable jobs.

     

  • Early coloreds distribution, never majority, prejudice in restaurants, southern feelings, World War II, Old Casino, colored people eat on streets, Grill Café.

     

  • Prejudice before World War II; coloreds social activities; Park School, 16th & Grove; good race relations for neighborhood, 42 kids on Lee Street, good area for kids, swimming on river.

     

  • Everybody congenial, library on Washington Street, $3 day wages, $16 a month rent; Basque moved out by 1940; few Lee Street people owned houses, neighborhood divided last 5 years.

     

  • Urban renewal projects on Lee Street; Riverside Park, selling pop from bucket, 1 cent per bottle, admission free.

     

  • Colored moved into Miller Street, World War II coloreds increase; gambling on Pioneer(?) Street, ran women, “washington jigs”; … and Austrians, Czechs, lots of bootlegging, Warm Springs Avenue bootlegger, hidden compartments for liquor.

     

  • Colored kept it it two block area, pretty quiet; Savoy Hotel, Oregon Hotel, other Johnsons on Pioneer Street, pre-war situation, small stigma with “south of tracks, … trouble area.